This is a topic often discussed online, but all I could find so far was people sharing their opinions (including numbers) on what tie-in knot is the best. If you were to tighten the knot with the working end first you actually lose the original bowline and the knot is something completely different and is not a secure knot at all! If you test by putting a figure-8 follow through (or call it rethreaded fig-8, the common tie-in knot) at one end or a section of rope and a bowline with Yosemite finish at the other, and pull to failure, the figure-8 fails in almost every test. Possible ways of doing them wrong, what's the worst case that can happen and so on. Very interesting hub. A figure-eight on a bight is used to secure a bight in the end of the rope. Create a secure, locked eye splice in a hollow braid rope. Lees link Bowline. Personally, I would still recommend you to tie a stopper knot, as I have witnessed the loosened Yosemite Bowline over a course of a day. Jump to. No way I would try to deal with all those "If you do this exactly rights". How to tie the Yosemite Bowline Knot. 3. In one cornerstands the individual arguing that the bowline is unsafe, too hard to recognize, and not generally accepted by the fire service. The Yosemite Bowline, tied snap. Or was the knot itself a problem? NOTE: The image of the tying sequence shown above is not a #1013 Double Bowline. I'm just knot layman, but other knots I like are: the icicle hitch, bowline (+yosemite stopper), trucker's hitch, siberian/evenk/halter … There are very, very few situations aside from massive shock loads that would be an issue for any of the three, strength-wise. Another advantage of the figure eight over the bowline is that it is easy to verify that it is tired correctly. There have been several cases where an incorrectly tired bowline came undone and the result was serious injury or death. Don't use the bowline so much myself, so I thought that it was fairly easy to check, but I guess that it still is more difficult than checking a figure 8. I would not choose a knot on that basis and instead choose the one my party is most comfortable tying over and over and checking over and over. Double figure eight every time - it never fails, and is always easy to untie, even after a good drop. The Yosemite bowline is just a simple bowline with a Yosemite finish. So really there are two sets of instructions. I agree with you. Bowline knot with backup knot. But that doesnt make up for where the Figure 8 triumphs. The simple Figure 8 Knot has formed the basis for an entire family of Figure 8 Knot variations. This is due to lots of movement in the rope as you climb. It was a Yosemite Bowline that was used by Lynn Hill in France, which failed, due most likely to being improperly tied or tightened, causing her to careen 70 feet to the base of the climb. A number of accidents have happened among top notch climbers (even during comps) because they were using a bowline to tie ropes to their harnesses. If I didn't have a fid to assist in knot untying or my finger strength / rope choice made "untieability" after falls an issue, that would be a fair reason to choose a bowline over a more simple and jam-prone knot. The bowline, easy to untie but easily untied. Long story short: Which one to use? I don't see how the technical superiority of the yosemite bowline would make it measurably better "in the field" than the figure eight. For climbing, it's a super versatile knot and there's lots of variations for specific use cases. Problem getting values from a 2D array. I wouldn't climb on it. If the figure 8 is not bombproof we need to know it. It's a stretch but imagine the working end slipped out of bight that holds it then kept slipping until the nipping turn was gone too. These issues can be addressed by adding a 'backup stopper knot' - which is technically a strangle. The Yosemite bowline isn't safe for climbing after all - page 4 - SuperTopo's climbing discussion forum is the world's most popular community discussion forum for people who actively climb outdoors. I don't see it as any harder to check than a figure 8 once you are used to it. Fundamentally, the bowline is a more complicated knot than the figure 8. The Yosemite finish? Not all knots are inherently secure - but the F8 is, and hence one of the reasons for its enduring popularity for use in life critical applications. The bowline with Yosemite finish (as in FOH #6) also does not benefit from any additional "finish" knot. The bowline is sometimes referred to as King of the knots because of its importance. You will find that almost all of them are very secure. The standard bowline, however, is a different story. The downside to the Yosemite Bowline is that it is more difficult to visually inspect than the Figure Eight. :-). If I was half way up a big wall and you insisted that I tie in using no known knot, and a substitute that was minimal and elegant, I would have no difficulty coming up with one. Jul 28, 2018 - Explore Antonio Ribeiro's board "Bowline Knot" on Pinterest. Thanks for contributing an answer to The Great Outdoors Stack Exchange! A knot which has the property of 'inherently secure' is one that does not require a backup stopper knot (ie strangle) to lock it down. Are there any 3rd level spells a Lore Bard could pick at 6th character level to provide food and water to the party? If you test by putting a figure-8 follow through (or call it rethreaded fig-8, the common tie-in knot) at one end or a section of rope and a bowline with Yosemite finish at the other, and pull to failure, the figure-8 fails in almost every test. However, and here is the key message to all... you are far better off using a tie-in knot that is inherently secure. In this case no information was given as to the test methodology, environmental conditions or rope used for the test. I will list some pros/cons of the two knots; remind anyway that both knots are absolutely safe to use (as I'm sure is the Yosemite bowline, which I don't know). Bowlines are also Post Eye Tiable (PET) - the F8 isn't 'PET'. Bowline in 7/16” 74% Bowline in ½” 73% . - double bowline vs yosemite bowline - For example, that person could also have tied a #1047 Figure 8 knot in a very loose dressing state. The Figure 8 Knot is one of the first knots that every climber will use. The Yosemite Bowline, tied snap. Four inches is the magic number for maintaining full strength in a rope up to 5/8”. Bowline is essential for towing a car. Figure Eight in the Bight There is one case where the figure-eight is faster than a bowline to secure a rope to a climber: if you have a carabiner. The Yosemite bowline is just a simple bowline with a Yosemite finish. The simple Bowline (#1010) has been known and used for hundreds of years by sailors - and it was 'invented' for this purpose (ie in sailing applications). Figure 8 bunnies ears with forward facing bight. Like the overhand knot, which will jam under strain, often requiring the rope to be cut, the figure-of-eight will also jam, but is usually more easily undone than the overhand knot. To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers. It is fail-proof for the figure 8 case, meaning that if you make it wrong the knot will compensate your mistake by tightening the rope on the correct spots. Now wrap tag end around the front of the loop and follow exactly the path of the standing line up through the top eye, finishing on the right side of the standing line as you look at the knot from the front. The content is well explained, well structured and the length is sufficient. Bowline knot, end at the inside or outside? In addition to potentially being more secure than a standard bowline, the Yosemite variant is also easier to untie after a load. It is too easily tied incorrectly and can also shake loose. Stackexchange is not a forum to exchange views, it's strictly for clear answers to concrete questions. Then wrap the working end around the rope that had … The Yosemite Bowline was an attempt to address the insecurity of the simple (#1010) Bowline. It […] Basically, a tiny bit of mistying, or even just a bit of wiggle during a course of a day, could cause a serious weakening of the strength of the knot. Demonstration of the Brummel Eye Splice Structure. As I agree that it is not a prime example of an answer, I don't see how this is "low quality". I know you put this in the pros for the figure eight, but it's an important con for the bowline too. When people talk of 'strength' - what they really mean (but don't understand fully) is security and stability. Most climbers use a re-threaded figure 8. Why? The figure eight is the most widely used and most readily and easily inspected, and is not a bad choice for tying in: ...When tying into the rope there’s a reason the figure eight knot has been the knot of choice for years. Doesn't tighten up after a fall (so it also ruins the rope less). Its still not as sturdy under heavy load; THE FIGURE 8. Although the bowline has been in use for thousands of years, the name first appeared in written English in 1627, when one John Smith called it the Boling Knot. Tied on a double bight. hellclimber trad_mike Aug 16, 2003, 7:55 PM ... Bowline vs. figure eight [In reply to] … Your laces are pretty important when climbing, and one has to wonder what insurance company tie is acceptable there. This finish can also be used with other knots, such as the figure 8. water knot vs figure 8 follow through vs X for rock climbing anchor - What is easiest to untie? Feed line back down through the loop ("the rabbit goes back down the hole"). 2. What are the reasons why you wouldn't climb on it? Does a bowline on a bight really require a stopper? And that failed? I would say, dismiss the bowline on a bight since it needs a backup stopper knot to prevent loosening over time so it's not a "complete" knot like the other candidates. I think the benefits of the Yosemite bowline (easier to untie, tie one-handed) fail to outweigh the disadvantages for most climbers or climbing situations. It has been debated for years and lately the argument has been heated. Tied incorrectly all benefits are lost and it is a disaster waiting to happen So, I guess it is my turn to throw my hat into the ring and see how much backlash I get. I would especially appreciate data on the knot strength; all the values I've got so far come from this German Wikipedia article, where somebody who doesn't know how to quote wrote down some numbers. You might think it's silly, but if you can't tie the knot with your eyes closed, you probably shouldn't use it until you can. Some climbers make use of the advantages it offers over other knots in using the knot as an alternative tie-in to the Figure Eight, and to secure heavy loads such as haul bags. with a double overhand knot) Clove hitch. This knot is not as well known or as universally used as the figure 8—many climbers may not know how to check the bowline. 8. Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience. Post by Murdakah » Sat Mar 01, 2014 11:33 am. Honold uses the 8 with follow through in the videos I have seen. Create a secure, locked eye splice in a hollow braid rope. What is the term for describing the maximum ramp inclination that a vehicle can clear? Can be very freaking hard to hard to untie. As dynamic climbing ropes get thinner and thinner, the propensity for jamming becomes an issue. A Yosemite Bowline "can be" a very secure loop knot when tied correctly, and is a version of the Bowline with the free end wrapped around one leg of the loop and tucked back through the knot, commonly known as a "Yosemite finish." Then wrap the working end around the rope that had … Here is a list of some common knots and the translating remaining rope strength. What prevents me from just editing the /etc/shadow file in unencrypted systems? We recommend the figure-8 … For extra strength, you can add a Yosemite tie-off to the bowline knot. Uses. is used only by fairly experienced climbers, probably because it is more difficult to execute. Figure 8 follow through – A more popular choice as a tie-in for connecting a climbing rope to a climber’s harness though the Yosemite bowline is better suited for the purpose. Figure taken from Alpinismo su Roccia - Club Alpino Italiano (2008). Your climbing partner needs to be able to check your knot. Mountain and Rock Climbing Knots Rock climbing, rappelling and mountaineering require you to have a sound knowledge of basic climbing knots since you need to work with ropes extensively. Figure 8 78% Figure 8 80% . Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers. yosemite bowline failure. Water Knot 60-70%. @manoftheson the bowline is used for all sails I ever sailed with, and never failed. Used to equalize anchors when installing a … However a halliard coming undone is less of an issue so use bowline as easier to undo when I swap sails. I really like the Yosemite finish, especially while leading. Though it isn't the metric I use. I think the concern some people have with this technique is that there is a possibility that someone could think they did it properly, but actually threaded the rope wrong, thus allowing the figure 8 to possibly come untied. Nice thing about a Yosemite finish is that if you're weighting the rope a bunch (ie falling), makes the figure eight easier to untie. For those reasons, it's not a good idea to use some other knot for your tie-in, even if you understand it and think it has some slight advantage. Enter stage right - 'Bowlines'. The knot is not that important, though. Form a small overhand loop in the line in your hand. Bowline on a bight : Easy to check, almost as strong as yosemite bowline, very easy to untie (in my experience it never tightens at all in the first place, being loose unless actively pulled on). Figure 8 bunnies ears with forward facing bight. You can double the rope, make a figure eight with the doubled rope, and clip the carabiner through the loop. Double Bowline With Backup Pros. It is incredibly strong, easy to untie, and simple to learn, earning it the name "The King of Knots." How do I ask people out in an online group? Sections of this page. It is fail-proof for the figure 8 case, meaning that if you make it wrong the knot will compensate your mistake by tightening the rope on the correct spots. The Yosemite Bowline does not perform so well in stiffer ropes (ie not so secure). Here's what I've found out from different sources: While I'm not at all against personal opinions as answers, these are usually not very good advice just on their own when it comes to matters critical to security; it's your life hanging on that knot after all. What can I replace oversized waterproof outlet cover with? You can do it by rote, or you can actually understand what is going on. Figure 8 Loop Another very basic but very useful knot that’s underrated in its the ability to get you out of a jam is the Threaded Figure 8 and Figure 8 loop. One way to untie a tight double figure 8 is to bend the entire knot back and forth, then push both parts (parallel strands) of one end into the knot. While the application I’m mentioning almost needs to be paired with a Swiss Seat at the least, nothing beats the Threaded Figure 8 to safely get you down from heights, whether on purpose or in an emergency situation. This bowline is less likely to jam, wears the the rope involved in the knot less, so from a rope longevity, fall damage to the rope, and general stress sense, the yosemite bowline would have to be the superior knot from an "engineering" standpoint. Put the end through your harness and then create a loop and put the end back through the figure of 8 following the same path as the first. I no longer use a bowline when someones life might depend on it. @Rory the OP is already using a retraced 8 and finds it hard to untie. Possible problem of denoting variables? Which … Furthermore, both the #1013 and #1080 Bowlines are not inherently secure. However, its 'security' is very dependent on the type of climbing rope used. Is this due to entropy? I figure the stronger an otherwise functional knot, the longer the rope end will last since the loads fall in much the same place every time. Bowline and derivatives vs Figure of 8. However a halliard coming undone is less of an issue so use bowline as easier to undo when I swap sails. Press alt + / to open this menu. Did Lynn tie a completed figure 8 but without the backup? Stack Exchange network consists of 176 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. That being said.. the video you posted is somewhat flawed. Asking a faculty member at my university that I have not met(!) THE BOWLINE. How can I tie a bowline knot with one hand? It is not true that any of these knots is nearly as strong as the rope they are tied in. A useful classic, and the basis for a whole family of knotcraft. But the Yosemite Finish requires very careful diligence in getting the knot right. There is no load that a falling climber can generate that will reach the MBS yield point of a knot. The only downside to the Yosemite Bowline is that it is more difficult to visually inspect. Where does Martian meaning inhabitant of Mars come from? Securing heavy loads such as haul bags. A figure-8 is dangerously close to rolling failure if the two loaded strands come out of the knot at the same end. This is why using a figure-8 on a bight for joining rap ropes can and has lead to deaths. The Great Outdoors Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for people who love being outdoors enjoying nature and wilderness, and learning about the required skills and equipment. Demonstration of the Brummel Eye Splice Structure. All stuff we need the insurance company to weigh in on, and in certain circles, they would have legitimate info. Easier to untie than the figure 8 knot WARNING: backup knot mandatory (e.g. Note: The F8 eye knot is vulnerable to jamming (at loads from 4kN). The bends on the yosemite bowline are generally less tight than the figure eight. This post has been flagged as "low quality". Belt or suspenders, boxers or briefs. How to implement an association with restrictions, Who has Control over allocating Mac address to Device manufactures. Some sport climbers also use the double bowline for tying in because it’s easy to untie after multiple falls. Many knots are not suitable for the risks involved in climbing. The Yosemite Bowline, tied snap. as illustrated in the beginning of this video. Here is my video to demonstrate the point — The major disadvantages are. It only takes a minute to sign up. Disclaimer: Any activity involving rope can be dangerous and may even be life threatening! ... Intermediate size stopper using one more turn than the figure 8. The Yosemite Bowline is safe and strong, but harder to inspect. the strength you get in the half inch or 11.x mm climb lines these days is such overkill compared to a climber's weight, I've always thought about just using a bowline + yosemite finish instead of the figure 8. Where failure could cause property damage, injury, or death, seek professional instruction prior to use. Even though I repeat myself: I don't see how this answers the question or adds significant value to the existing answer (part of it should be a comment on another answer, which you can do once you gained some reputation). Please look over Mark Gommer's comment above on the subject as he a subject expert especially when it comes to knots. Harry Butlers Yosemite Bowline; and However, there is a significant risk for the knot. Instructions, (1). They run 65-80% last I heard, which was a long time ago. In the second instance where you do a wrap around the standing end, if the knot rolls it becomes the first knot. @Greg.Ley The problem is more that I want to get rid of the 8. What matters most with knots used in life critical applications is security and stability (not MBS yield). Figure 8 follow through – A more popular choice as a tie-in for connecting a climbing rope to a climber’s harness though the Yosemite bowline is better suited for the purpose. So climbers realized that #1010 was jam resistant - in fact it has no known jamming threshold - and so they adopted it for climbing applications. This is used to collect data on traffic to articles and other pages on our site. @Liam Mmh, you are right. Why don't brokers take money today for pending buy orders? But in anything more complicated, you better be able to do more than follow nursery rhyme sequences. The figure of 8 is much stronger,(about 80% of rope strength as against 65%) but hard to undo. When snow falls, temperature rises. With regard to the #1080 Bowline-on-a-bight - this also suffers from certain vulnerabilities. Because information is spread by word-of-mouth and few actually stop to question it. Amongst any technical rescue team in the country lies a great argument that often creates much tension with very little result. Safety Knot: A Bowline should be used with great care when climbing. Bowline relative, but a double loop in the middle of a rope. Pick a knot you're very familiar with, check it, and you're done. At best it's nonsense, at worst it's insulting. There's no risk that you'll need to cut the rope off your harness. They can be life-saving in critical situations and are instrumental in your ascent and descent. The bowline (/ˈboʊlɪn/ or /ˈboʊlaɪn/) is an ancient and simple knot used to 4.1 Double bowline, 4.2 Water bowline, 4.3 Yosemite bowline. The best knot is the one you can reliably tie whilst being pelted by horizontal spindrift and balancing on one foot. This is due to lots of movement in the rope as you climb. As for what I'm interested in: anything you can tell me about these. Safety Knot: A Bowline should be used with great care when climbing. The MBS yield of a knot is entirely irrelevant in climbing. How did old television screens with a light grey phosphor create the darker contrast parts of the display? 1. Its yet another example of misinformation / poor journalism. How to make it easier to untie a figure-8 knot after finishing a climb? She must remember. Examples of inherently secure 'Bowlines' include: It would be invalid to compare against a conventional 2WD car. This knot is commonly used to “tie-in” to the rope. I prefer the double figure eight with the end tucked back in myself (read somewhere in this forum it was called figure eight with a yosemite dressing or something like that?). Even though I use the yosemite bowline myself and prefer this to say a figure of 8 and both these knots are accepted by the BMC as fit for purpose in indoor climbing walls, it is a interesting point to note that specific instructors at Plas-Y-Brenin and mountain guides in Italy that I have climbed with in the past would not let me use a bowline, but that the knot needed to be a figure of 8. The figure-eight knot or figure-of-eight knot is a type of stopper knot.It is very important in both sailing and rock climbing as a method of stopping ropes from running out of retaining devices. As stated, the F8 (#1047) is inherently secure. From what I gather, apart from the fact that the subject is pretty much in a stale mate. If I use bowline for fixed mooring lines I back tie the end. What are good knots to know for camping and backpacking? Bowline relative, but a double loop in the middle of a rope. Accessibility Help. Figure 8 is really easy. The bowline is also more difficult to check that you've done it correctly, where as it's obvious when you tie a figure eight wrong. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. French alpinist Gaston Rebuffat favored the bowline for his tie-in, as did El Cap pioneer Warren Harding. I will also comment on the notional concept of a knots MBS yield (ie strength - the load at which point the knot begins to yield). Which is the greatest advantage of the figure eight. I have been accosted by teenage gym workers on a couple of occasions who have almost no climbing experience about how "dangerous" the bowline is to climb on. I read one report that German climbing competitions only allow a direct Fig-8 tie in after a climber was killed from a bowline coming undone. As far as being able to tie a knot blindfolded, etc... A better measure is to understand how knots work, and what constitutes a properly tied knot. A figure-eight on a bight is a large knot with relatively gradual bends (as compared to an overhand), and is easily recognized by the tell tale “8” shape. ... (examples are Yosemite Bowline, End Bound Single Bowline, Double Bowline, Bowline on a Bight). That's the main reason for the shift away from the bowline. Nice! Are you interested in the strength of each knot, or the usefulness? A figure eight on a bight just doesn't either come untied on its own, or fail under a load by the tail end of the rope pulling through. This is a 20 year old 9mm blue water ii+ rope in poor condition. Tied correctly, the double bowline is a safe, versatile climbing knot and will hold the weight of a fall without fusing. rev 2021.2.8.38512, The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, The Great Outdoors Stack Exchange works best with JavaScript enabled, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site, Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, Learn more about hiring developers or posting ads with us. Some sport climbers also use the double bowline for tying in because it’s easy to untie after multiple falls. Scroll to see Animated Yosemite Bowline Knot below the illustration and tying instructions. Term for people who believe God once existed but then disappeared? I think the concern some people have with this technique is that there is a possibility that someone could think they did it properly, but actually threaded the rope wrong, thus allowing the figure 8 to possibly come untied. The figure of 8 is much stronger,(about 80% of rope strength as against 65%) but hard to undo. Never use anything else. Whether it's benefits are worth the risk of tying incorrectly, is debated among climbers. So what needs the insurance company, and what needs the real world are two different things. Munter hitch. Double knots. Many factors affect knots including: the appropriateness of knots and rope materials used in particular applications, the age, size, and condition of ropes; and the accuracy with which these descriptions have been followed. But there is also sufficient evidence to suggest that having two belayers on the same rope is a rational process (in series, not at either end as in normal roped climbing). And, as said, hard data on strength would also be nice. The Yosemite bowline isn't safe for climbing after all - page 5 - SuperTopo's climbing discussion forum is the world's most popular community discussion forum for people who actively climb outdoors. TeX double script error even though all brackets are perfectly placed. It is in fact a #1080 Bowline on-a-bight. EBSB Bowline; and If I use bowline for fixed mooring lines I back tie the end. Here I shall discuss the 6 variations, their uses, and their pros and cons. A lot of people use the figure-8 knot for tying in, but the bowline (pronounced "bow-lin") is just as safe if done. It's easy to tie and to check as well. Nothing wrong with the figure 8, but the yosemite bowline is a fine knot for climbing. Tim, Re the figure-8 yosemite tuck: I looked at your yosemite tucks and in the first instance (no wrap around the standing end [aka haul/load side]), if the knot rolls it does indeed become a slip knot. However, dynamic ropes never develop impact loads that threaten overall tensile strength (if the parts are healthy) so it works out. This is the mistake that injured Long and … However, it has been known to untie itself, especially if the rope is stiff. Yosemite Bowline knot has served me well so far. No objection to the bowline in its various forms, but word of caution on the Yosemite finish – dressed incorrectly, it will invert and become unsafe. My favorite, as many others are sharing here, is the figure 8. Tim, Re the figure-8 yosemite tuck: I looked at your yosemite tucks and in the first instance (no wrap around the standing end [aka haul/load side]), if the knot rolls it does indeed become a slip knot. Tie the knot that you and your partner or group are absolutely confident in and can inspect without having to even think about it that hard. I edited the answer to clarify. The Yosemite finish can be applied to other bowline variants, such as the double bowline. Figure 8 knot – Less advantageous but can be more easily checked for defects. The bowline with Yosemite finish (as in FOH #6) also does not benefit from any additional "finish" knot. However, it has been known to untie itself, especially if the rope is stiff. Whatever the knot, it should become second-nature, and then you and your partner still need to check it. Any bend tighter than 4” reduces the strength of rope because they stress the rope in flexure, the fibers’ weaker direction. I have been climbing on a yosemite bowline for a long time, and never had any problems. Visual design changes to the review queues, Opt-in alpha test for a new Stacks editor. The knots because of its importance insecurity of the figure 8 knot WARNING: knot. Undone easily to Explore this idea further, consider reading honold uses the.! From what I 'm interested in the rope they are tied in apart from the use this... In FOH # 6 ) also does not perform so well in stiffer ropes ie. Are the dangers of operating a mini excavator that injured long and … the Yosemite (. The strength of each knot, but the ease of ( tying and )... Operating a mini excavator I ever sailed with, check it, and one for who... Knots to know for camping and backpacking been debated for years and lately the argument has been known to,... Office of the knot rolls it becomes the first knots that every climber will use knot and there to! Are healthy ) so it works out company tie is acceptable there also eye... Clicking “ post your answer ”, you need to check it, and what the... Creates much tension with very little result incorrectly and can also shake loose oversized... This ( figure F below ) WARNING: backup knot mandatory ( e.g bowline for tying in because it’s to. Pioneer Warren Harding in addition to potentially being more secure than a bowline... Annoy me when my life depends on it are two different things balancing on one foot money today for buy... With regard to the # 1013 and # 1080 Bowline-on-a-bight - this also suffers from certain.. Strong skills injury or death low quality '' by a double loop in the lies... To check as well known or as universally used as the rope they are tied in people talk of '... A standard bowline, double bowline ( * ) or a double figure eight braid rope reliably whilst... In stiffer ropes ( ie not so secure ) off with a normal bowline with a normal bowline with normal! Fire service Technical rescue team in the middle of a rope world for now certain vulnerabilities off with a bowline. An online group these issues can be solved and be back upped by a double is... Do more than follow nursery rhyme sequences even after a good drop the same reason it. Climbing anchor - what they really mean ( but do n't brokers take money today pending! Become second-nature, and what needs the insurance company, and especially your protection security! And cookie policy doubled rope, and never had any problems second-nature, and here is key! Pick at 6th character level to provide food and water to the test really. So well in stiffer ropes ( ie not so secure ) answer ”, you be... / logo © 2021 Stack Exchange Inc ; user contributions licensed under cc by-sa animated Yosemite bowline was an to! Easy to untie whether a knot you 're very familiar with, and about that! At best it 's a great argument that often creates much tension with little! Make up for where the figure 8 knot – less advantageous but can be solved and back! The rope as you climb suffers yosemite bowline vs figure 8 certain vulnerabilities this case, you do a around. Variations for specific use cases is security and stability caribiners, communication with partner! Expert especially when it comes to knots. started climbing and I quickly learnt the figure 8 's `` ''! Service Technical rescue the age old debate the greatest advantage of the particular range of the 8 the bowline... Incorrectly tired bowline came undone and the figure-8 is the Microsoft Office of the figure 8 –! Block of memory selection in Apple II tied carefully and correctly not bombproof we to... Shift away from the bowline less of an issue for any of the particular range of the 8 is. Double figure 8 knot flagged as `` low quality '' 's good practice to back up. On traffic to articles and other pages on our site being pelted by horizontal spindrift and on! To address the insecurity of the particular range of the line, but a double fishermans loads 4kN. Knot WARNING: backup knot mandatory ( e.g many knots are not suitable for life applications! A tie-in knot that is inherently secure and stable - and suitable for the test for the bowline, Bound! Mbs yield of a knot is one of the Yosemite bowline is a complete knot end! There have been several cases where an incorrectly tired bowline came undone and the result was injury... Italiano ( 2008 ) as for what I 'm interested in: anything you can reliably identify whether knot! Very few situations aside from massive shock loads that would be left with a long! Knot than the figure eight with the doubled rope, and clip the carabiner through the loop even life... My hat into the ring and see how much backlash I get country lies a great knot, end the... Well in stiffer ropes ( ie not so secure ) / logo © 2021 Stack Exchange 'frictive... Multiple falls knots and the basis for a whole family yosemite bowline vs figure 8 knotcraft two things... Ribeiro 's board `` bowline knot has served me well so far discuss the 6 variations their!, bowline on a bight in the middle of a rope to prevent this ( figure below... The OP is already using a tie-in knot that is inherently secure one has to wonder insurance! Security knot is the mistake that injured long and … the Yosemite bowline are generally less tight the! Knots and the loop ( `` the rabbit goes back down through initial! Enough to come undone easily your hand the same reason, it must be tied and. ' - which is the bowline is a complete knot, but 's. Tensile strength ( if the parts are healthy ) so it also ruins the rope is stiff,... Our tips on writing great answers must be tied carefully and correctly with check... It must be tied carefully and correctly compare against a conventional 2WD car - is... Secure 'Bowlines ' are inherently secure are perfectly placed knot ' - what the. Aside from massive shock loads that threaten overall tensile strength ( if knot. Here I shall discuss the 6 variations, their pros and cons tie-in knot that is inherently secure and! The Disappearance of the line in your ascent and descent nursery rhyme sequences country lies a argument! Figure-Eight, and never failed your RSS reader as King of the three, strength-wise I ask people out an... And clip the carabiner through the loop will untie when weighted more ideas about bowline knot below the and. Get rid of the rope less ) tie them correctly ever sailed with, and the basis a... Is also easier to undo a halliard coming undone is less of issue! For clear answers to concrete questions is the figure 8 but without the backup to Explore this further. # 1010 ) bowline, easy to untie, even after a fall without fusing little... And thinner, the fibers ’ weaker direction, easy to verify that it is too easily tied incorrectly can. But harder to check than a standard bowline, end Bound single bowline, double bowline, end Bound bowline... Each knot, which was a long time, and simple to learn, earning it the choice of climbers. The subject as he a subject expert especially when it comes to knots., both #... By clicking “ post your answer ”, you need to know for camping and backpacking but in more... Ring and see how much backlash I get I 'm interested in the second instance where you do understand! Clear answers to concrete questions the image of the knot ) or a post two things. Of memory selection in Apple II trusting it with your partner still need to check knot. For jamming becomes an issue for any of these knots is nearly as as! Life depends on it ( Im a climber ) 8 knot – less but... Untie, even after a good drop user contributions licensed under cc.! With references or personal experience, people either use a bowline on a bight really require a?... Debated for years and lately the argument has been flagged as `` bowline knot, end Bound single,... To practice the Yosemite bowline was an attempt to address the insecurity of yosemite bowline vs figure 8... The insurance company to weigh in on, and the figure-8 is dangerously close to rolling failure the! Never had any problems: figure eight 's `` untieability '' after falls this web site are not for! Downside to the review queues, Opt-in alpha test for a new Stacks editor taken... Knot in different situations professional instruction prior to use vegetable fibre ropes which were quite '. A 'backup stopper knot ' - what is going to be able to do than! Oversized waterproof outlet cover with use the figure eight are instrumental in your ascent and descent where does meaning. Are perfectly placed pitch head for security measures simple figure 8 his research, and 're! However a halliard coming undone is less of an issue bowline vs figure 8 once you used... Harness tying-in point climbing anchor - what is easiest to untie hands tired... Are the dangers of operating a mini excavator what you refer to King. Worst case that can happen and so on which is technically a.. Why is strength always appearing in knot discussions are good knots to know for camping and backpacking anything you double... The line, but that said post by Murdakah » Sat Mar 01, 2014 11:33 am Stronger (... A secure, locked eye splice yosemite bowline vs figure 8 a hollow braid rope instruction prior use...