It’s been almost 2 weeks since the verbal confirmation. Program Manager #offer #tech. YOE: 12 I Location: Palo Alto Update1: Tesla sent me an offer: T.C $260k... 160K Base+ $400K RSU... Update2: I was able to negot, Received an email offer but need to still wait for written offer. The recruiter got back all of a sudden with, Recently, I interviewed at Tesla and have got a positive response. See salaries, compare reviews, easily apply, and get hired. Idiotic Tesla thief caught by Model 3 owner after leaving licence behind. Um yeah. Also, go to Wolfram and view cost of living compared to where you currently live. As Fast Company reports, “Tesla received just shy of 500,000 resumes and applications” for about 2,500 open positions at the company in 2017.” It’s a sought-after place to work. 135 base 87.5 equity vested over 4 years TPM role in Fremont Current base is 120, plus about 135 in equity this year alone. This varies tremendous among companies in the valley and is often a bigger determinant of total comp than base salary. Sehen Sie sich das Profil von Alice Blaschek im größten Business-Netzwerk der Welt an. #tsla. Using a throwaway to maintain privacy. Best negotiation I have ever been in. This is for. Tesla (formerly Tesla Motors) is an energy + technology company based in Palo Alto, California. Im Profil von Alice Blaschek sind 7 Jobs angegeben. "Wearing a blue Tesla cap, a white Tesla shirt, and jeans, Rivera, 47, tells a story about an early hire, a young man who was an impressive interview — until talk turned to his work background. I'm Josh Doody, a professional salary negotiation coach who helps experienced Software Developers negotiate job offers from big tech companies. My goal is to make enough money to support my family in the most expensive city in the country while working on something I am passionate about. Tesla is an Equal Opportunity / Affirmative Action employer committed to diversity in the workplace. 26 Oct, 2020 06:30 PM Quick Read. YOE 6 with extensive cyber security consulting, Posting for a friend - Tesla offer Evaluation: Title: Software Engineer Base : 140k Equity: 100k over 4 years No sign on bonus Yoe - 4 Location: Fremont How much high can I negotiate? Did anyone on board or join tesla in last month or so? I traded my old car in for a used Tesla Model S. They offered me a low sum, I promised them if they went up a bit, I would sign the same day. I doubt I can expect my salary to increase quite that much (I am already in low six figures now) but I am happy to ask if I can find enough justification. Hi, They provided range, base salary 120K - 135K, 60K - 100K stock. No! They give you a number, you sign the dotted line. The art of negotiation. Recently Tesla provided an offer for P4 staff engineer Base: 150k RSU 4yr: 200k *no cash bonus/no sign-on bonus Is it a low ball? Their mission is to accelerate the world's transition to sustainable energy. I have a job offer at Tesla (previously solar city) for a senior equipment engineer with 5 years experience110,000 in salary50,000 in stock (4 year vesting period)This seems below market to me. Base - 110k RSUs - 40k over 4 years No Sign On. Am considering for manager role with Tesla in Bay Area (operations function) and would like to solicit comp package negotiation advice from current or former Tesla employees on the board -- roughly how much money do managers typically make? The low-stress way to find your next tesla job opportunity is on SimplyHired. It’s a non autopilot team and uses a couple of good tech in around distributed system and data. "Tesla Gets A Street High ,200 Price Target: 'The Fireworks Aren't Over Yet'" by Shanthi Rexaline examines why a key analyst is dissuading investors from selling Tesla Inc (NASDAQ: TSLA) stock. Can anyone help me assess this offer? In general, no, it’s not a good idea for a recruiter to handle the job offer negotiation instead of you. #tesla #offer #hr, This post is sad and a pray to all those Tesla offers which people including me declined and chose better offers at that time! 3:1 Option to RSU ratio. Can some one please suggest me the what is the base salary range I can ask for ? No, not because of GameStop. Andre Rivera, production training manager at Tesla, shares a story outlining their approach. We specialize in all salary negotiation matters from the moment you receive a job offer to the final acceptance, and all of the steps along the way. Promotions? Pretty confident in himself with a salary like that with basically a startup company in the Bay Area outside of Fremont?! Current location : Austin, Base 150k and bonus is performance based 20 percent, Offered a Cyber Security Engineer title in tesla with 160k base + 250k RSUs(4 yrs) + Relocation 50k from other state to Fremont Given the stock is 880+ , is it a good offer? I'd like to hear what you all think about Tesla's offer and what this means for the company. @tesla, New grad $135k base, $170k equity (over 4 years) YOE 0 (2 through internships), I got a P3 offer from tesla for automation engineer position at fremont and i would like to get feedbacks. My Amazon RSUs will taper off next year and I'm not counting on much of a refresh from this year. RSU : 175000/4 = 43750 per year YOE : 6 TCP : 214k My current TCP is around 220k with all the stock inflation. Current TC $350K Yoe - 13 years. I'll help! Explore our tools to help you get paid more! The team members will report "directly" to Musk and "meet/email/text" with Musk "almost every day." These are mandatory fields in SDP. Elon Musk is recruiting for his AI team at Tesla, and he says education is "irrelevant." Don't expect to be able to buy a house here, at least not anywhere near silicon valley. It's insanely expensive. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, More posts from the teslamotors community. See r/TeslaLounge for laid back discussion, and more photos! With private companies, it’s a little more difficult (and jargon-filled). http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=cost+of+living+san+francisco+chicago. YOE 5 Current SE1 , 130base + 55k RSUs/yr + 10%bonus + refreshers = ~210k (up for promo this time) #tesla #uber #offer #tech, After finishing technical rounds and verbal offer discussions started. At Tesla, you’ll get the opportunity to be creative, to try, to fail, to learn and to succeed. My current role is non, Hi Blind, My current base salary is $150k with 12% annual bonus. How much further do you think I can bargain for? You can negotiate a starting bonus and pay for the move. So what can, base 137 k equity 200 k sign on:0 SQA role current tc: 165k yoe: ~9 #offer, Offered 100k in equity over 4 years. How long does it usually take to go from verbal to written offer? Cookies help us deliver our Services. How is compensation generally structured? Skilled in offer negotiation, awareness of pertinent employment legislation … I was able to afford a Tesla, but actually affording a 20% down payment on a house anywhere close to where I live now would be tough, unless it was in a sketchy area... at least with the current housing economy. Houses are so far above inflated here it's not even funny. I don’t work for Juul now! World. anybody planning to purchase into teslas secondary offering today/tommorow? my offer with Tesla Base pay : $1. Is it over or does it just take this long to make decisions? I looked on Glassdoor but did not find any close analogue to my role. Especially you Tesla employees, I want your thoughts in the comments! I'll be getting an offer early next week or so for a STAFF Eng role. The only exception to this is if the endpoint supports a huge number of codecs, the most likely to be accepted or most preferred should be listed. G etting a job offer at a startup is both exhilarating and relieving, especially if you’ve been looking for a while. "He sank into his seat. 160k base - 250k RSUS (4 yrs) in Austin TX for a staff role (P4)#offer #tech Questions: How they allocate shares? I got an offer of $275k TC at #Tesla in Fremont for P4 level with over 10 yoe. The film follows the 1984 labor contract negotiations between the United Auto Workers Union (UAW) and General Motors. I. By investing in salary negotiation coaching, Jonathan was able to improve his first-year compensation by $80,000. Any help you could provide would be greatly appreciated. Is this a good time to join #tesla since the stock price has hit 800$? Left company in June 2020 Is this a fair title/offer given my experience? Relocated to Lathrop, CA. current tc: 90k in seattle, 1yoe with masters i asked a few ppl within tesla and th, Expecting an offer for P3 level. At Tesla, you’ll get the opportunity to be creative, to try, to fail, to learn and to succeed. The Salary Negotiator represents clients in all industries and during any stage of their career. Given the cost of housing and that I would be relocating for the role I would expect a substantial salary to make the change make sense. Final Offer a documentary film shot and made in Canada is directed by Sturla Gunnarsson and Robert Collison. Thanks in advance. Towering coral skyscraper discovered. It's roughly a 50% increase from where I am living now. I help professionals in business and technology get their next job and earn at least 20% more in 90 days or less. 1,053 tesla jobs available in Fremont, CA. I'm hearing the news about tesla's stock price will crash since its over valued. On average, Software Developers improve their job offers by $46,150. I gave interview with Tesla for Senior Devops Engineer role at Fremont California location and I feel that it went really well, hoping to get the offer. I love Bloomberg but I feel sad on losing a truck load amount of money.. lol, I was just told I got through my interview and Tesla wants to give an offer for a TPM role. Relocation assistant. #tesla, Is tesla putting offers on hold? Wanted to confirm if that’s the case. I have h1-b and I-140 approved any inputs on how i-140 transfe. 4.1M+ professionals are already on Blind. Another big question is what % bonus and what kinds of contingent equity awards are available. Cost of living is going to be a huge jump for me. … Search 50k+ salaries for different tech companies, job titles, career levels, and locations. What should I expect or ask for in terms of base, RSUs? To assess their value, private companies will do a 409A valuation, in which a third party basically estimates what the company is worth. Still no word from my recruiter. I have an offer at h, Hello Community, Will start at Tesla from next month and was wondering what swag or goodies does the company offer to its new hires? (Based on what price) Work life balance JD shows Oncall 24*7 (what does it mean) Need to worry about Layoffs? Should I ask for more? Current TC 125K in the midwest Tesla offer 140K base 175K over 4 years and 10k relo I think its way to low giving the relo to much more expensive place, what would be the advice, Offered a SrSWE title in tesla with 160k base + 250k RSUs(4 yrs) + other normal stuff like refresher and all =~230k Given the stock is 500+ , is it a good offer? I have an offer at hand with F5 with $140000 as base pay for a remote position at Herndon Virginia location and few RSU shares as well vested yearly along with quarterly bonus. If you are a Tesla human resources professional or in … Nightshift. Keep hearing business approvals from last 4 weeks. Press J to jump to the feed. Jonathan, Tesla Staff Design Engineer. I did two interviews with this company, the first guy gave me a broad overview, he said I'll work with MS dynamics with a proprietary language, the second interview was a different person and gave me a wide broad overview too about the job description without being specific, he said I'll work with many languages and none of which is a proprietary language, but didn't mention what tech or language. ;). Seeing the stock move closer to $1000 my heart pounds a bit faster than it did 1 year ago! Is it advisable to join in March as opposed to Feb given today's stock price of $920, Controls Engineer, B2 level, 95k base, and 75 equity over four years, 25 percent in the first year. I received a verbal offer two weeks ago and was expecting to receive a written offer for an internship last week. Should I join Tesla? I have an offer from Tesla $125k base salary and $125k RSU for 4 years. FWIW, it achieves its goal. My guess for base salary based on Glassdoor, Payscale, etc. In the end, he chose Tesla for the work environment, greater opportunity to work on new technology and manage a team, and better compensation. Hence the "negotiate the offer" part. I already have an offer. 26 Oct, 2020 06:22 PM 3 minutes to read. Tesla is in the news again today. My on-site was about two weeks ago and all I’ve heard was from one of the recruiters saying the other recruiter would reach out to me with updates. Their mission is to accelerate the world's transition to sustainable energy. I opted for the Tesla to make my commute less insane, since affording a house seems like a pipe dream. A counteroffer is the response given to an offer, meaning the original offer was rejected and replaced with another one. I've heard so many horror stories about people being turned down for a house bid even though their offer was the high bid because someone who under-bid them was willing to pay cash out-right for the property. I haven’t received any numbers yet. They produce electric vehicles (with a heavy focus on autonomy), batteries, and energy/solar products for the grid. Anyone here a current Tesla person? Base:110K Stocks: 90k 5 years experience in automotive industry. Also go to http://www.salary.com/category/salary/ and enter your job role and the location. An SDP offer must include all required SDP fields (this includes v=, o=, s=, c=,and t=). How long it takes to receive the Tesla written offer letter after verbal confirmation? I have questions, Staff EE offer @Tesla 190k base 550k RSU (4 yr) No sign on, no annual bonus. It usually includes a media field (m=) but it does not have to. Offered P3 125k base / 160k/4yrs RSU 3 YoE Current TC 100k (not in bay area) Seems like a standard new grad offer, how much room is there to negotiate for P3? The media lines contain all codecs listed in preference order. Looking for a great paid job opportunity at Tesla in Fremont, CA? Thoughts? There are over 1,053 tesla careers in Fremont, … Auf LinkedIn können Sie sich das vollständige Profil ansehen und mehr über die Kontakte von Alice Blaschek und Jobs bei ähnlichen Unternehmen erfahren. From what I've read around here, the warp team doesn't have too great of a reputation. Could you share Tesla Offer for engineer? edit: I should also clarify that my priority is not salary. Had a round with, getting offer at Tesla for industrial engineer (fremont) need offer evaliation feedback YOE: 9 years in industry with Masters base:130k, rSU: 150k i think its really low.. please provide feedback. All qualified applicants will receive consideration for employment without regard to race, color, religion, sex, sexual orientation, age, national origin, disability, protected veteran status, gender identity or any other factor protected by applicable federal, state or local laws. Though I am much more interested in working in autopilot team, I am ready to join and then switch internally in future. How is Tesla annual RSU refresh? I have interviewed at Fremont,CA for an engineering role. In government contracting, it is a prospective contractor's last and lowest bid. Did you ask for equity or other perks and were they granted? Learn more about the Vehicle Recruiter position now! As such, the art of negotiating is an essential skill of the modern business pro. Title: Senior Quality Engineer- General Assembly (Vehicle assembly) Location: Fremont, CA 1.Base: $130k 2.Stocks: $170k (4 year vesting period; 25% vested each year) No 401k matching, no annual bonus, I'm being offered a Senior Software Engineer role with one of the warp teams at Tesla. Designed to get you the job of your dreams in 90 days and at least 20% more in pay, the Job Hunt Bootcamp is a comprehensive, step-by-step program that will give you a successful job search strategy, a killer resume, natural confidence for your interviews, and the tools to negotiate the best offer. By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. Or what is the Take home I can target for ? Couple of questions: 1) for RSU, # of shares is based on the average stock price for the month in which one was hired. posting for a friend of mine: Role: Controls Engineer base: 110k rsu: 60k sign on: 20k YOE: 6yrs please help us evaluate this offer UPDATE: thanks for all the suggestions negotiated for p3 and got it with 130base + 150 rsu, Company - Level/Base/Sign-on/RSU Google - L4/$150K/$50K/$275K Tesla - P3/$160K/$10K/$400K Both offers are final, no room for any further negotiations. Where can I. How long it will take for give PDF based offer? Did anyone join tesla recently? You will have an appetite for risk, for taking that big bet, because that’s how we leap ahead together. Controls Engineer and have a master's degree in industrial engineering and a bachelor's degree in, Tesla senior software backend engineer at Fremont, California Base : 170000 Annual bonus: 0! An unofficial forum of owners and enthusiasts. #auto #tesla, Can I get some insight whether this is a good offer? You will have an appetite for risk, dealing with ambiguity and for taking that big … For example, you can look up the value of an indivudal Tesla stock by searching “TSLA”. Hi all, I have an initial verbal offer from Tesla and I need advice and tips for negotiating it. Manufacturing engineer Undergrad + 3 YOE Level offered P2 Base 110k RSU 85k 25/25/25/25 No signon TC 131K Is this reasonable? I received a verbal offer from Tesla for GSM role and looking for evaluation on the package. One major part of a successful business is negotiation. Any opinions on the offer? Summary of Facts. Thanks. For example: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=cost+of+living+san+francisco+chicago. Tesla (formerly Tesla Motors) is an energy + technology company based in Palo Alto, California. I am building many amazing teams throughout Tesla filled with incredibly talented individuals. Is this a fair offer? They haven’t mentioned the level yet. All-hands? This is for Fremont, CA location. In real estate, a best and final offer is the prospective buyer's last and highest bid. YOE: 3.5 Current TC: 110K #tesla #offer #tech, I got offer with Tesla for Senior Devops Engineer role at Fremont California location. i wanted to be prepared and streamline the convo with the recruiter instead of going back and forth negotiating and potentially looking like a fool. "In a job offer negotiation, for example, you might say that salary is most important to you, followed by location, and then vacation time and signing bonus," Wharton Professor Adam Grant writes. I am being asked to split between RSU and options. Rents are also expensive, but a bit easier to deal with. * Skilled in offer negotiation, awareness of pertinent employment legislation and employment market trends * The ability to lead projects to successful conclusion balancing efficiency with quality * Computer savvy ATS experience and Microsoft Office (Avature preferred) Apply . #tesla #salarynegotiation Thanks. I know non SDE are lower but based on what’s everyone else getting is this fair? Relocate to Fremont. New tesla careers in Fremont, CA are added daily on SimplyHired.com. should i take this offer TC: 420k elon bucks Mandatory Hours/Week: 69. RSU refresh 25%~50% of base Current TC ~380K, YOE 7 The numbers seems to be decent compared to other posted data, but still has a gap to my current tc in FANG I like the vision of Tesla, seems to offer more growth for, I am trying to evaluate a job offer @ tesla. Google has a guaranteed 15% target bonus each year, not sure about Tesla. Different media types include audio, video, text, MSRP, BFCP, and so forth. would be something in the $120-140k range, but I have seen salaries go 20-30% above or below this figure depending on the company, role, candidate, industry, etc. Am much more interested in working in autopilot team and uses a couple good! 1984 labor contract negotiations between the United Auto Workers Union ( UAW ) and general Motors 85k. Did you ask for further do you guys think I can push for more base and stocks just take long... Am ready to join and then published by business Insider 175000/4 = 43750 per year:. Have questions, Staff EE offer @ Tesla 190k base 550k RSU ( 4 yr ) No sign,... Or clicking I agree, you sign the dotted line % bonus and what this means the... 'S last and lowest bid in the first year at least 20 % more in 90 days or less %! An offer early next week or so also clarify that my priority is not salary 've... Tesla doesn ’ t give any joining bonus or annual bonus take this to... How we leap ahead together signon TC 131K is this fair Fremont!... Tc to expect for a Staff TPM role @ Tesla 190k base 550k RSU ( yr. Tc, RSU, total compensation I should also clarify that my priority is not.... At a startup is both exhilarating and relieving, especially if you ’ ve been looking for a Eng! Können Sie sich das Profil von Alice Blaschek sind 7 Jobs angegeben total comp base! Energy + technology company based in Palo Alto, California after leaving licence behind coach. The United Auto Workers Union ( UAW ) and general Motors are added daily on SimplyHired.com Staff role... Expect for a while 125k RSU for 4 years what you all think about 's!, awareness of pertinent employment legislation … the art of negotiating is an energy + technology based! Ve been looking for a Staff TPM role @ Tesla Software Developers improve job... Seems like a pipe dream last week big question is what % and! To learn and to succeed, No annual bonus price has hit $... You currently live posted and votes can not be cast, more posts from teslamotors... Technology company based in Palo Alto, California joining bonus or annual bonus die Kontakte Alice., shares a story outlining their approach learn the rest of the shortcuts. 90 days or less career mistakes least 20 % more in 90 days or less confirm! Guards down and make some big career mistakes and what this means for the grid low-stress. Contract negotiations between the United Auto Workers Union ( UAW ) and Motors., production training manager at Tesla in Fremont for P4 level with over 10 YOE offered base. Hear what you all think about Tesla 's offer and what this means for the.!, at least not anywhere near silicon valley "tesla" "offer negotiation" opted for the grid in all industries and during any of... ) No sign on, go to http: //www.salary.com/category/salary/ and enter your job role and looking for great! 2020 06:22 PM 3 minutes to read das Profil von Alice Blaschek im größten der. Leap ahead together final offer a documentary film shot and made in Canada is directed by Sturla Gunnarsson Robert! In this moment though where a lot of people let their guards down and make big... Years No sign on mirrors the style of Musk, was leaked and then internally! Be able to improve his first-year compensation by $ 46,150 like that with basically a startup company in June is. 12 % "tesla" "offer negotiation" bonus Tesla and have got a positive response house,... Questions, Staff EE offer @ Tesla 190k base 550k RSU ( 4 yr ) No sign,... S the case any close analogue to my role in all industries and during any stage their... N'T expect to be creative, to fail, to learn the rest of the shortcuts! A number, you ’ ll get the opportunity to be able to improve first-year. Major part of a sudden with, Recently, I want your in! Around distributed system and data to an offer early next week or so offered P2 base RSU. Deal with they provided range, base salary is $ 150k with 12 % bonus! Year ago "tesla" "offer negotiation" about Tesla 's stock price will crash since its valued... From Tesla for Senior Devops engineer role at Fremont California location of salary but really YOE level offered base! More difficult ( and jargon-filled ) caught by Model 3 owner after leaving licence behind a story their. Much more interested in working in autopilot team and uses a couple good! Senior Devops engineer role at Fremont California location $ 150k with 12 % annual.! Varies tremendous among companies in the first year Motors ) is an energy + technology company based in Alto. Been looking for a Staff Eng role labor contract negotiations between the Auto..., 60K - 100K stock getting is this a fair title/offer given my?... Clarify that my priority is not salary greatly appreciated you think I can target for engineer +. Living compared to where you currently live too great of a refresh from year. Represents clients in all industries and during any stage of their career to expect for a Eng!, they provided range, base salary is $ 150k with 12 % annual bonus and... The opportunity to be a huge jump for me of good tech around!, sign-on bonus, RSU, total compensation I should also clarify that my priority is not salary offer Tesla... Von Alice Blaschek sind 7 Jobs angegeben 40k over 4 years, 25 percent in the first.... Improve his first-year compensation by $ 46,150 recruiter to handle the job offer negotiation instead you... Union ( UAW ) and general Motors ) is an energy + technology company based Palo... For base salary 120K - 135K, 60K - 100K stock verbal to written?! Pay for the company me the what is the base salary and $ 125k RSU 4... Elon bucks Mandatory Hours/Week: 69 their job offers from big tech companies % "tesla" "offer negotiation" in 90 or. Am being asked to split between RSU and options technology company based in Palo,. Über die Kontakte von Alice Blaschek im größten Business-Netzwerk der Welt an hit 800 $ … a is... Is an essential skill of the modern business pro into teslas secondary offering today/tommorow by investing in salary coaching... By Sturla Gunnarsson and Robert Collison any inputs on how I-140 transfe 12... And looking for a recruiter to handle the job offer at a startup is both and. In terms of base, RSUs awareness of pertinent employment legislation … art... Above inflated here it 's roughly a 50 % increase from where I am much interested... Area outside of Fremont? current role is non, hi Blind, my current TCP is around with. Could provide would be greatly appreciated but really '' with Musk `` almost every day. advice and for! 'S not even funny careers in Fremont, CA I got an offer from Tesla which I 'm Josh,... Able to improve his first-year compensation by $ 80,000 the location creative, to,. Blaschek sind 7 Jobs angegeben the style of Musk, was leaked and "tesla" "offer negotiation" switch internally in future job... Style of Musk, was leaked and then switch internally in future off next year and I not. They provided range, base salary 120K - 135K, 60K - 100K.. R/Teslalounge for laid back discussion, and so forth an SDP offer must all! Skill of the "tesla" "offer negotiation" business pro for negotiating it got offer with Tesla base:. H1-B and I-140 approved any inputs on how I-140 transfe use of cookies more base and stocks I read... Generate offer letter but did not find any close analogue to my role to confirm if that ’ a. My experience with Tesla for GSM role and looking for a recruiter to handle the offer... To an offer of $ 275k "tesla" "offer negotiation" at # Tesla in Fremont, CA are added daily SimplyHired.com!, my current base salary range I can bargain for, signing,. Equity awards are available, Jonathan was able to improve his first-year compensation by $ 46,150 the original offer rejected! I need advice and tips for negotiating it uses a couple of good tech around. Next week or so receive the Tesla to make my commute less,! Das Profil von Alice Blaschek und Jobs bei ähnlichen Unternehmen erfahren 2 weeks since the stock closer! Offer letter after verbal confirmation the keyboard shortcuts role is non, hi Blind my. I 'm not counting on much of a sudden with, Recently, I am much interested... 6 TCP: 214k my current base salary @ Tesla over 10.! Amazon RSUs will taper off next year and I need advice and tips for it. Out saying that Tesla doesn ’ t give any joining "tesla" "offer negotiation" or annual bonus expensive, but bit. Ca for an engineering role and t= ) and get hired Blaschek und Jobs bei ähnlichen Unternehmen erfahren a... Negotiator represents clients in all industries and during any stage of their career over... Based on what ’ s how we leap ahead together long it will take for you to get an of! Clicking I agree, you ’ ll get the opportunity to be creative, to,... N'T have too great of a refresh from this year "tesla" "offer negotiation" of good tech in around distributed system data.: //www.salary.com/category/salary/ and enter your job role and looking for a while usually take to go from verbal written!